tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11018049.post115366467101510484..comments2023-09-28T02:41:23.763-07:00Comments on Hearts and Bones: Faith Without Deeds is DeadJoehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11937069310796223875noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11018049.post-1153876251156413002006-07-25T18:10:00.000-07:002006-07-25T18:10:00.000-07:00interesting point Joe. From my experience, it see...interesting point Joe. From my experience, it seems that many "traditional" churches tend to preach the "be saved or go to hell" Gospel, but the newer thinking churches preach the "live daily with Jesus" Gospel...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01518221135391609508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11018049.post-1153867106548374202006-07-25T15:38:00.000-07:002006-07-25T15:38:00.000-07:00I love you Joe. But there is a slippery slope tha...I love you Joe. But there is a slippery slope that I'd caution you (hear: me) on. It's very easy to get disenfranchised with the American System of church. Frankly, we suck. But there is great danger in placing theological weight on the experience of the times. Conversion is a way of life. Sanctification is a way of life. But we are saved from the wrath of God poured out onto Sin, to a new life starting now unto forever. It's messy. It's a scandal now as ever before, but Christ has died so that I might have forgiveness of my sins, thus being reconciled to God. Hebrews makes it very clear that the sacrifice of Christ was to deal with sin, once for all. If I am Amen-ing this, than I respond accordingly. If I simply "know" this, my life does not change. <BR/> And I think this is where the difference really is, though it is rarely stressed. Many of us "know" Jesus. Yet just the light of knowledge isn't enough. That's Gnosticism, the "hidden truth." If I really believe in Jesus, then I take his words and mission seriously and I respond accordingly. (Which I think you’re getting at, and includes willing, joyful and obedient submission to him and him alone, i.e. believing in Him as BOTH Lord and Savior)<BR/> So in short, I think it's a "both/and" to your questions. You're both saved from the Wrath of God AND your sinful life. Your heart of stone is replaced with a heart of flesh right now, AND you are raised on the last day to eternity with Christ. <BR/> You're right. It's not a new laundry list of do's and don'ts, necessarily. But we ARE bound to Christ and that means that we DO have a grid that we now must look at the world through, and assess do's and don'ts. It's kind of like, in Christ, the training wheels come off. The question is: are you going to ride towards the goal, or stop and put the training wheels back on. <BR/> All this is fine and good. But I will not allow culture and the screw-ups of humanity in the church to establish my doctrines. How I live is huge, but that's an issue of sanctification and movement towards greater intimacy with Christ. My salvation isn’t dependant on how I live. It’s not dependent on me at all. For at the end of the day, my security is that though I suck, Christ is sufficient for my needs. How I respond to the Gospel is HUGE, but salvation is founded on what Christ has done, not me. <BR/> I don't know if you're following me, or if I over reacted. But substitutionary atonement is a doctrine I will die over, and I'll die fighting for it tooth and nail. I'm not saying you don't believe in Sub. Atonement, but this blog entry sounds slippery. If I am wrong, then I humbly and joyfully admit my error and repent. If I hit close to a doctrinal nerve in question, then I do not apologize, but encourage you to read again Hebrews (even if it was yesterday!).A. Englerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02439198590403690331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11018049.post-1153764799451876542006-07-24T11:13:00.000-07:002006-07-24T11:13:00.000-07:00Excellent call on the salvation issue, Joe. My qu...Excellent call on the salvation issue, Joe. My question for my classmates whenever we get into the discussion is (as you said)--'What are you saved FROM and what are you saved TO?' It seems to me that a theological imbalanced is bred by only asking one of those two questions, or drastically limiting the scope of both questions. I have been craving theological balance lately, and it's good to see you working toward the same goal. Blessings, brother.timmer k.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08688436730176282672noreply@blogger.com